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Lip Flap
I wrote a letter to our Pastor's mother telling her how
much I appreciated what he had done for the church. I also included how badly he was treated by the church leaders. Does this happen in other churchs?
When talking about abuse we usually mean children.
What happens when a pastor is abused by the church leaders?
Yes Judy,
It happens just about as many times as when a pastor treats part of a congregation poorly. But, when church leaders have all or mostly turned on a pastor, there is usually an underlying reason. Pastors, on the other hand, are supposed to be above the fray, and hold themselves to a higher standard. They are still the pastor of all even in the times of discontent. And it is even more difficult during a schism.
One seems to think the pastor is always wrong? Everyone wants to hear about the good. What about the
bad and the ugly?
Judy,
There's certainly enough ugly to go around in congregations, but I'd like to challenge you to think a little differently. Instead of blaming church leaders, church members, or pastors who are abused and abused, begin asking, "What is it about our congregations that allows such behavior to take place?"
As a pastor, I've been through a couple of different circumstances where things were very ugly, had the potential to become ugly, and where things went very smoothly. I've seen the ugly pastors can perpetuate, and I've seen the ugly congregation members can perpetuate. It's easy to suggest one or the other is at fault, and certainly folks bear responsibility for their actions; however, there is also a truth in seeing that such behavior is a product of systems which do not know how to handle conflict; do not know how to handle bullying;do not know how to handle those who disagree with them; etc.
In some congregations, such issues are worked out rather easily with little or no conflict; other places, not so much. Why? I think asking this challenges us to think beyond personalities and playing the blame game.
It seems to me based on what is going on in this area that there is an organized effort to get rid of pastors who are not liberal extremists, no matter how good they are. The Central States Synod is on a mission and I am certain it is not from God.
This is the problem when you have major church policy changes without having a huge majority, let alone a simple majority. This whole thing has been a lot like the Democratic National Convention held in Charlotte, NC in Sept 2012 where the delegates on the floor clearly denied the mention of God to be added to their Party platform three times, with a voice vote, but Antonio Villaraigosa said the measure passed anyway. The Democratic leadership tried to change something that at least a simple majority of the rank and file delegates didn’t want any part of. So they just did it anyway. And so the voices of the godless within the Democratic Party (which seems to be at least 50% if you listen to the video) were silenced. Be it right or wrong; the only way to promote unity is through consensus. If you cannot persuade unity by consensus; you must coerce unity by attrition.
Hey Chuck, I can't speak for The Central States, but I can speak for the Texas-Louisiana Gulf Coast: there isn't such a movement down here. As a pastor who is far from a liberal extremist and is rather conservative in most aspects, I have felt no pressure or sense that anyone is trying to get rid of me. My bishop has been very supportive, and we have mutual respect for one another despite our very, very noticable differences.
Try being a conservative in the Sierra Pacific Synod.
That is good. At least there is one place where tolerance lives in the church. I have seen 3 pastors attacked and removed by this bishop and his assistants and I believe more are or will be on his list - especially if people are foolish enough to re-elect him.
Davey, I have a sneaky suspicion the Spirit won't be calling me out there in the near (or far) future. :-)
Thank you for saying what is really on your minds. I to
have been abused by the church, I am not sure I will go back. They scare me.
I want to find resolution to the issues, but there is no
resolution because of those in charge did what they did
and are still in charge. In fact they are building barriors around themselves. They did the unspeakable and got away with it and are still in power. My question to you is where can one go to get justise?
I have a letter I wrote to the pastor's mother and I would like to send it to you. If OK.
Judy,
Resolution isn't an easy thing to find in such a process. If these other members have sinned and are causing trouble, there is a section in most church constitutions which deals with "persistent troublemakers." The process is laid out clearly and mostly follows Matthew 18. It's a tough thing for a congregation to go through, but it is a way to "get justice"--although the preferred option is always reconciliation.
You may send me that letter if you would like and the reason you would like me to read it by email. You can send it to prhaug@hotmail.com.
Judy, I suspect the local congregation members who are doing these things are not alone. My experience is that the local synod uses individual congregation members as "useful idiots" to do the dirty work of trashing the work of the pastor. The bishop then come is with his mind made up and puts on phony "listening" meetings. It is a total sham. Those who are a part of this group, although in a different synod, are still complicit. They can just close their eyes and pretending it is not happening. I suspect there was a lot of this type of attitude 70 years ago in the birthplace of Dr. Luther.
We could sure use some more pastor and bishop type folks of you’re ilk around here. The ELCA's sophia worshiping crowd is getting more and more mainstream.
Our Mother who is within us
we celebrate your many names.
Your wisdom come.
Your will be done...
Strange to hear ELCA folks bash the Catholics for their theology when they have people bowing down and worshiping the goddess sophia…..strange times indeed.
whoops, that was for you TheHawg
Does anyone need a really good pastor. He is not aware
I am contacting you but I can reach him if there are prospects out there. Judy
The Pastor has unshakable principles in "Honoring all Peoples" Isn't that the way it should be? Are there any
pastor job openings out there for him to apply to. Judy
Judy,
The ELCA has a process for congregations and pastors so that vacancies can be fill and pastors can find new calls. The pastor fills out mobility papers and sends them to the synod office. The bishops or assistant to the bishops matches profiles with congregations seeking pastors. There is an interview/discernment process, and then a call is issued.
Knowing the situation in the ELCA right now, there is not a lot of mobility. There are very few openings and plenty of clergy to fill them. If your pastor has his paperwork in, it could be quite some time before he even gets an interview.
You'll never guess what the Pastor just received! Removal from being a Pastor from the ELCA National. Is there another Lutheran Faith he could preach as a pastor? There was no cause stated. Shouldn't one receive a reason for removal? Could one get the ruling overturned because there was not sufficient cause? I would like to provide resources for him but don't know where to go. Can anyone get information as to what to do? Thanks